DISCUSSION ON 1ST GEAR VARIATIONS, AND 6 SPEEDS IN GENERAL:
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Q. What are the variations on 1st gear in the 01E transmission?
A. There are four different 1st gear (mainshaft) part numbers. Basically, there was the original type 1st (mainshaft part # 01E 311 105 G), the flexible 1st ( ... 105 E), the wide 1st ( ... 105 J), and the wide & flexible 1st ( ... 105H). The 105G was the 1st gear originally used in the lower HP cars, which included all of the '92 - '95 US and Canada cars with a 5 speed, and European 6 speed cars with AAN engines during the same period. During this early period, the V8 cars and the S2's had a flexible mainshaft for 1st gear, this is the 105E. The higher horepower cars like the RS2 had yet a different mainshaft, with a wider gear for 1st that was also flexible, this is the 105H. This migrated into the V8 cars somewhere in 1995. A wide 1st mainshaft (105J) also migrated into all of the other 6 speed cars, somewhere around late 1995 or early 1996.
Q. Why should I buy a used six speed when I can buy a new one from Blau?
A. Jim Blau tells me on 8/09/02 that he hopes to have more transmissions in stock 6 to 8 weeks from now. These transmissions should be new units, and should be code DSY. This is a later S4tt gearbox, and like other V6tt 6 speeds, it has a wide 1st - 105J mainshaft. His new 6 speeds are priced at $3495 plus shipping.
Q. What's this talk about the wider first gear?
A. There is a problem with the early 01E series of transmissions. First gear is not wide enough for the loads that a turbo can produce under some situations. This has happened in both chipped and non-chipped cars. Audi made the RS2 transmission with a wider first gear to handle the increased torque. This change then made it into the S2 in late 1994 and finally into the S6 in June of 1995. If your S6 was a June '95 build date or later, you should check your transmission serial number to see if it is "CBD 79445" or above. If so, you have the wider first gear. One lister has destroyed first gear in three transmissions. He says he has a list of other s-listers who have the same problem. The author of this web page, Charlie Smith, personally experienced the problem. There is a description of the symptoms of the problem just below in this web page.
Q. How come the earlier Turbo Quattros with the 016 quattro transmission, in the 86 - 91 period, didn't have this problem. Isn't the 01E transmission supposed to be stronger?
A. There is a thought that this problem is related to the center Torsen differential, combined with inadequate 1st gear tooth surface strength. The thinking goes something like this ... as you break a front wheel loose under hard acceleration the Torsen differential locks and unlocks, causing a heavy shock load on the transmission. In 1st gear this shock loading puts very heavy pressure on the gear tooth surfaces, causing failure of the teeth.
What really happens is the surface of (probably) one tooth on 1st gear on the mainshaft becomes galled. If you have ever seen the inner race of a ball bearing that's failed - with very heavy pitting, that's what the failed first gear tooth looks like.
Note from Charlie Smith: A photo of the failed 1st gear teeth is at the bottom of this web page.
Another note: The above is only a theory - I'm told the UrQ got the Torsen worldwide in about '88 in the 016 transmission. So obviously the torsen center differential isn't the whole story.
Q. Do the S2 transmissions have the wider first gear?
A. Only the late model S2 transmissions, after serial number CGR 77644
Q. What the difference between the RS2 and the S2 transmissions?
A. Provided we're talking about the late model S2 versus the RS2, nothing except the code stamped on the outside. The RS2 transmission is code CRB and the S2 is code CGR. So if you use an S2, you lose bragging rights, but you're probably going to get a better price...
Q. Why don't I just get the parts directly from Europe or from Hoppen and rebuild my five speed into a six speed?
A. The center housing of the transmission is a different part for the wider first gear. Provided you were willing to give up the wider first gear, the best parts price anybody has gotten is $1900 (Steve Mills) and $3500 (Hoppen distributor). Most rebuilds reported on the s-list have cost at least $800 in labor (German Transaxle). Your car will have downtime, and you can't sell your old five speed on e-bay :-)
These prices are just for the 6 speed conversion parts. The parts to do a conversion to a wider 1st gear are probably another $1500 - $2000, and that's if you locally machine your center housing for clearance. I'm not sure it's feasible to machine this part, I'll update this information after some investigations.
Q. How do I know an RS2 or S2 transmission will fit and work correctly?
A. Several people have done the conversion and installed an RS2 or S2 transmission into a UrS4/S6.
Q. What about the new S4tt 6-speed transmissions?
A. This may be a good way to get a 6 speed, if you can find one at a decent price. These have shown up on eBay under $2000. This gearbox is going to have slightly longer ratio 5th and 6th gears. ( see notes on fitting S4tt DSY into UrS4/S6 )
Q. What's the final drive ratio of the S4tt? Is it the same as the rear differential on the UrS4/S6?
A. Yes. The final drive ratio is 9:37 which is 4.11
Q. Why can't I just buy a new S4tt 6-speed transmission from Audi? With estimates of $4500 to repair a transmission with a failed 1st gear, wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy a new one?
A. Per Carlsen Audi, the *dealer* cost on a complete new 6 speed S4tt transmission is $8300. Otherwise, it was an interesting idea.
Q. What about a 6 speed 01E from an AllRoad? Will it fit and can I interchange some of the lower gear ratios?
A. The final drive ratio is different, it's 8:35 which is 4.375 - this will not work with your current rear differential ratio. I think you could interchange the lower gears in pairs ... because of gears made as part of common shafts, you would have to change 1 & 2 together, or would have to change 3 & 4 together.
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HOW CAN I TELL IF A TRANSMISSION HAS A WIDE 1ST GEAR?
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Here's pictures showing how to identify center section of
transmissions that have a wide 1st gear.
There's also pictures here of a tail housing with the ProConTen guide
and a picture of a transmision with an oil pump.
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HOW CAN I TELL WHAT CODE TRANSMISSION I HAVE?
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How can I tell if I have a wide 1st gear?
Crawl under the car and look at the transmission serial number.
The number will be located on the bottom of the transmission right under the inner CV joint of the driveshaft for the left front wheel.
On the left side of the transmission, there is a side cover plate that's about 9" in diameter and it's bolted to the transmission with about 10 nuts. The flange that the CV joint fastens onto comes out through the middle of this side cover plate. The serial number is on the bottom of the transmission body, right under the bottom two nuts holding the side cover plate. It's on the bottom of the body, not the side plate.
The serial number will have the 3 letter code like "CBD"or "CBL" followed by 5 digits.
Check the 5 digit serial number with the numbers given above.
This is a picture of code and serial number. Click on picture for enlarged photo.
You will see pictures of transmission code and serial numbers, and also picture of a narrow 1st gear
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SYMPTOMS OF FIRST GEAR FAILURE
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How can I tell if I have the problem?
A description of the symptoms in a '95 S6, with 56,000 miles on the odometer.
The noise began as a very faint tic, tic, tic noise - but just when beginning to move in 1st gear when the car was cold and when it was 20F or 25F degrees outside. Sort of like the noise you made as a kid by putting a playing card into the spokes of a bicycle, but not that loud. Since it was cold, of course the windows were rolled up.
I dismissed the noise, as perhaps being due to something that oil had not yet reached, because once I would shift into 2nd for a few feet, and then back into 1st - the noise would be gone. I would only hear it on the first motion ... when I would be traveling at 2 or 3 MPH in a parking lot with very light throttle.
Anyway, by the time I had driven another 2000 miles, the noise was quite apparent, particularily if I would drive away with the windows rolled down. On disassembly, the damage to 1st gear was quite apparent. The rubbing surface of one tooth on the mainshaft was very badly galled away.
1st gear failure, showing tooth galling
Click on picture for enlarged photo.
During the period when the noise of the failure was developing, there no super fast starts, and certainly no wheel spinning starts. There was plenty of full throttle acceleration in first gear, but only after the clutch was fully out.
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WHAT CAN I DO ABOUT IT IF MY TRANSMISSION SOUNDS LIKE THIS?
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Here's a discussion of repair / replacement options for an 01E gearbox with a failing 1st gear.
a) the lowest cost repair:
Find an earlier 01E 5 speed that's got a bad pinion bearing, the
mainshaft is probably still good. Probable cost $350 or so.
Have a shop pull the parts you need out of the other transmission
and use them to fix your transmission. Probable labor cost $600
to $1000 depending on who does it.
b) Have someone buy the minimum parts you need in Germany, or through
Linda at Carlsen Audi. Probable parts cost $1500 to $2000.
Have a shop use them to fix your transmission.
c) Find a good used 01E 5 speed and install it. I found two or three
in the $1500 to $2500 range. That's with your bad transmission
in exchange. Consider, you don't really know what you are getting
until after it's installed.
d) Find a used 6 speed and install it. Be careful, since not all of
them have a flexible 1st gear or the wide 1st gear. See 6 speed
discussion below. Also, see above in this web page, this
lists serial numbers that will have the wide 1st gear.
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A POSSIBLE SOURCE FOR TRANSMISSIONS IN EUROPE
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This German web site provides quotes from over 100 used auto parts
dealers in Germany. It looks like it's very well organized as far
as knowing about all the various car models. You can start off and
select "English", then "Spare Parts Inquiry", and go from there.
renet Recycling Network GmbH
I was told by someone in Denmark, that they located a 01E 6 speed
through this source at a very reasonable price. It was a low mileage
transmission and he's very satisfied with it. :-)
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DISCUSSION ON 6 SPEEDS IN GENERAL:
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6 speed discussion: Also, if you are buying it from Europe and importing it be aware the V8's have a slightly different bell housing / differential housing part. The RS2/S2 gearboxes have a different rear housing. The labor to install your rear housing on a RS2/S2 isn't too bad. Using a transmission from a V8 will probably have one or two bolt holes wrong for the bolts that hold the engine and transmission together - it will probably work fine even if you can't use one of these bolts. If the V8 transmission is later than 1995, then it didn't use the ProConTen system. Then all you have to do is install the cast ProConTen guide part from your UrS4/S6 transmission. On the UrS4/S6 this guide bolts on top of the center section of the transmission. I've heard people say that the RS2/S2 rear housing with the ProConTen guide will fit into the UrS4/S6 body as is, which means you probably don't have to change the rear housing. You will still need to bolt your original ProConTen guide onto the top of the center section. Note, the late 01E 6 speed from a S4 2.7tt uses a 211 C center section which will probably not include the bosses used to bolt on this guide.
Probable cost on a 6 speed is $3200 - $3800 *without* conversion of the rear housing. One converted RS2 with shipping and with my old transmission in exchange would have been $4500. I went for one that had not been converted and paid $3800 which included shipping. I then had the dealer that diagnosed / disassembled my 5 speed pull the rear housing off the RS2 gearbox and put on the parts from my 5 speed. The total labor from the dealer was $900, which included removal, disassembly of the 5 speed, storage at no charge inside their garage for almost 3 months, conversion of the RS2 gearbox, and reinstallation and testing.
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REPAIR NOTES AND COMMENTS:
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A note on doing the dissassembly / repair yourself, or through a friendly garage who has never done an 01E transmission. I've worked on Porsches for 30+ years, and have done many, over maybe 50, Porsche gearboxes. At one point I was doing them often enough that I built my own special tools to set up the adjustment dimensions, and I bought a complete set of all the various shims so I would have exactly the shim I needed to get the right adjustment on something. The Porsche transaxle is quite complicated to correctly assemble. For a while back in the early '70s I was racing a Porsche 911 in SCCA races. I was taking the transmission apart to change gear ratios every month or so.
The Audi Quattro transmission, any of them, has all the adjustment complications of the Porsche gearbox plus quite a bit more rather specific adjustments. The point being that the Audi quattro gearbox will need a set of special tools similar to that of the Porsche, plus several others.
I have considered making the special tools needed for the 01E gearbox, to that end I've kept the bad gearbox that came out of my car, so I can use it to measure and build the tools needed to adjust it for reassembly. Until I've made at least a few of the tools, I wouldn't consider trying to do it myself even on my own gearbox. Remember, if it isn't quite right, you've got to pull it back out and do it over again. If it isn't adjusted exactly right, it may have whines that will lead to early failure, or it may not shift right, or any of several other difficulties. Pulling the Quattro gearbox is not the easiest one around. It's quite heavy, you have front axles plus the driveshaft, and the exhaust has to come off so you've got room to remove it.
