Here is an article on EIBACH Springs
and BILSTEIN Shocks for our cars.
From: Charlie Smith
Subject: [s-cars] Recap of Eibach and Bilstein Info
This is an attempt to summmarize information about Eibach Pro springs and Bilstein Sport shocks for our UrS4/S6 cars.
Now - what you want to know:
Trying to understand Eibach spring part numbers and what they mean is enough to make you dizzy. Eibach themselves quotes different numbers in Europe and in North America. Many times, Eibach technical persons do not know this fact (problem), so they will tell you that their "version" of the story is the gospel truth. Ha ha ha.
As far as I've heard, all of the North American Pro Kits have been marked 1529.140 on the outside of the box, in Europe the kits have different numbers.
First, you can NOT go by the Eibach 1529.140 "Kit Number" on the box. You have to look at the actual spring part numbers that are on the springs.
There are three combinations of springs that have been sold here in the US and Canada. All of the US and Canada sets have been marked 1529.140 on the outside of the box package. The installed ride heigth for each of the three sets is quite different. The difference is most apparent in the rear, but the front's are different too. All three spec's of Eibach springs will lower your car a lot.
There were three combination of spring part numbers in various Eibach spring kits that were marked 1529.140 on the outside of the box. The first section of this discussion covers the just the first two kit combinations. The third section way down at the bottom of this discussion covers the most recent (third) combination of springs.
First as background, the original Eibach Pro kit sold in North America, before they discontinued production had these part numbers on the springs:
1529.140 Kit (original): p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R
The Eibach spring part numbers which are marked on the springs for each of the three combinations sold more recently are as follows:
1529.140 Kit combination one: p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R
1529.140 Kit combination two: p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R
1529.140 Kit combination three: p/n 1527.001 F, 1516.002 R
Here's a side view of Charlie's S6 with the Euro Kit (combination one) springs on it
At the risk of causing you more confusion, I'll quote some information from the German Eibach site which gives spring part numbers for four different model/types of Audi models 100 / A6. The site mentions all work with and without A/C and automatic transmission. It also quotes different "kit package" part numbers for Sedan / Avant and 2WD / 4WD.
Sedan 2WD (not Quattro) 1991 - 1997 2.3, 2.6, 2.8, 2.4 D, 2.5 TDI
Pro-Kit 1527.140 - p.n 1527.001 F, 1515.002 R
Sedan 4WD (Quattro) 1991 - 1997 2.3, 2.6, 2.8, 2.5 TDI, S4, S6
Pro-Kit 1528.140 - p/n 1527.001 F, 1516.002 R
Avant 2WD (not Quattro) 1991 - 1998 2.3, 2.6, 2.8, 2.5 TDI
Pro-Kit 1529.140 - p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R
Avant 4WD (Quattro) 1991 - 1998 2.3, 2.6, 2.8, 2.5 TDI, S4, S6
Pro-Kit 1530.140 - p/n 1527.001 F, 1521.002 R
From the part number combinations on the European Eibach site, you can see there are differences from the information provided by the US Eibach distributor. Please remember the rest of this discussion is using the part numbers as quoted by Eibach here in the US and Canada.
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Ok, the discussion on combinations one (hereafter called the Euro kit, because it was ordered through Europe and so they produced the European 2WD Avant kits) and combination two (called the USA Kit because it has the original US kit spring part numbers) follows:
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Here's some notes from Bob Rossato in November 2000 about the differences.
The p/n's Bob is noting are those marked on the springs. The part number for the entire kit (on the box) was marked the same on both types. That number was 1529.140 because in Europe that number was for a different spec kit than the same number as used in North America.
An other archived email said correctly that the Euro kit was for a 2wd Avant, and that Eibach said that they would be too soft for the heavier Quattro S-cars.
My personal opinion is that the Euro kit is still much better than stock if that's all you can find. As a note, the US Kit "combination two" springs are a bit stiffer and are no longer available unless you can find a set laying around in somebody's garage that was never installed. Yes, I really am going to replace my Euro kit springs on the car with my US Kit springs laying in my garage, so don't ASK! :-)
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Bob's notes:
For those of you that have already installed the Eibach Germany 1529.140 kit (p/n 1527.001 F, 1517.002 R) that we originally received and may be contemplating whether or not you should change them for the Eibach USA 1529.140 kit (p/n 1529.001 F, 1529.002 R), here are some of the major differences.
The rear spring (p/n 1529.002) from the USA kit is 45mm (1.75") shorter than the 1517.002 rear spring. The wire diameter is the same. Overall diameter is the same. The coil spacing is approx. the same (0.1" difference). The number of active coils is the same, but the number of inactive coils on the USA 1529.140 is 3.5 vs. 5.25 for the German kit, resulting in the overall shorter spring. Also there is no rubber tubing on the inactive coils in the USA kit like there is in the longer springs from the German kit.
The front spring (p/n 1529.001) in the USA kit is approx.13mm (0.5") shorter and has a slightly thicker wire diameter (16.6mm vs. 16mm) but is otherwise the same as the 1527.001 spring.
End of Bob's Notes.
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Bearing in mind the difference in rear spring lengths Bob mentions above, here's what you need to do to install them on a UrS4/S6 sedan to get the car to ride somewhat level. With the Euro kit (combination one) you need to lower the rear spring perch 1 cm on the rear shock body. To do this requires machining a new groove on the rear shock body for the spring perch retaining snap ring. With the US kit (combination two) you need to raise the rear spring perch 1 cm. To do this use a 1 cm spacer on the rear shock body between the snap ring and the spring perch. Some of this is mentioned below in the Bilstein Sport shock discusssion.
With the currently provided North American kit (combination three), you should get a level ride with Bilstein Sport shocks. This should not require any machining or spacers on a UrS4/S6 sedan. I can't speak to Avant's.
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Now, regarding the third combination of spring part numbers that has recently turned up:
First Dave Dawson wrote on May 13, 2003 (slightly paraphrased):
A friend recently bought the infamous Eibach 1529.140 kit...
Upon opening the box, there appears to be yet another variable in the Eibach equation. My set was labeled 1527.001 (fronts) and 1517.002 (rears), as were several other lister's sets that I've talked to about Eibachs. His rears are labeled 1516.002. They are also missing the rubber sleeve that is installed on the "inactive" coils of the spring.
To figure out what's going on, I called Eibach... and after much delay, got on the phone with a tech person. Here's what he said:
Anyone who got a set of springs labeled 1517.002 for the rears, got the wrong rear spring. The new number (received from shox.com this week) is 1516.002 for the rear spring. According to the Eibach person EVERYTHING about these two different rear springs is identical (both spring rates, coil diameter, wire diameter) except the 1516.002 is 30mm shorter unloaded and unsleeved. The free length of the 1517.002 was 335mm, while the "correct" 1516.002 is 305mm. This explains the 1970's "jacked up" look that myself and others have noticed.
[ Note from Charlie: What Dave heard below from this Eibach person ]
[ is probably incorrect, because this Eibach person doesn't know about ]
[ the previous GP confusion of combinations 1 & 2 discussed above. ]
The Eibach "technical" person claims that nothing (in terms of spring specs) ever changed for this spring set, US or German. The only difference was where they were wound, some here, some in Germany. The confusion started in the US when they offered Pro Kit Dampers, on which the rear perch problem existed. For this, they offered the spacer. Otherwise, he claims that they are currently offering the ONLY spring kit they have EVER offered in any country. Part numbers have changed, but the specs have remained identical, according to the specs he was reading to me.
[ again from Charlie, the Eibach guy appears to be really wrong on the above. ]
So on that note... If you bought a 1529.140 Pro Kit from anyone, and it has 1517.002 rear springs, he said that Eibach would replace them with the correct 1516.002 rear springs. Dave Dawson said those folks should call Eibach at 909-256-8300 and talk to Scott Curry at extension 130. They are open at 8 AM Pacific Time.
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After Dave's email just above, Bob Rossato then wrote the following, which goes along with my comments above about this Eibach "technical" person not having the full facts.
Bob Rossato's email:
I was part of the GP for the 1529.140 UrS4/6 kit ~3 years ago. Eibach had officially discontinued the 1529.140 kit a year or so earlier but some folks at Marcor in Canada and another place in CO whose name escapes me, convinced Eibach to make "one last batch". The first kit we got had the 1527.001 fronts and 1517.002 rears and folks on the list that had purchased the original 1529.140 kit pointed out that the spring numbers were different.
The original kits had 1529.001 fronts and 1529.002 rears.
After much perseverance by Peter Anderson who coordinated the GP, Eibach admitted we got the wrong springs and made a new batch for us. When the new set arrived I had the opportunity to compare the two sets side by side and take measurements (both brand new out of the box). There definitely was a difference between the two.
The 1529.001 fronts appeared to be stiffer than the 1527s based on larger wire diameter and shorter free length. The 1529.002 rears had the same wire diameter and number of active coils as the 1517.002 springs, but had ~2 less inactive coils than the 1517.002s making them 45mm shorter, which I guess makes them 10mm shorter than the specs you listed for the latest rear spring (1516.002). Hey there's our 10mm spacer ;-)
If Eibach is now claiming that the specs between the old 1529.001/.002 and today's 1527.001 & 1516.002 (1517.002?) are the same, then one way or another they don't have very good records.
[ end of Bob's comments. ]
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The other important thing to note for installation of any spec of these Eibach springs, is that they will lower the car enough that you won't be able to correctly adjust the front camber. After some thousands of miles of hard cornering, you will wear off the inside 2" of your front tires. You don't need to ask me how I can be so certain about this :-)
There is a cure for that. It requires making a modification to your top camber plate - the one that holds the bushing that the top of the shock bolts into. Igor Kessel has written a number of good articles on suspension allignment, including making a .pdf file that shows the exact modifications that need to be done to the top camber plate. Igor's writeups and a link to download the camber plate .pdf are here:
http://www.elektro.com/~audi/alignment/
Please note: I have never had any of H&R's Audi V8 springs, so I don't know anything about their stiffness or ride heights. Sorry.
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And for a semi-complete summary email, I'll include what I've said earlier about the Bilstein Sport shocks, along with some notes from Ray Tomlinson on Bilstein revalving:
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First, the part numbers for Bilstein Sport shocks for our UrS4/S6 cars:
P36-0369 front
B46-2066 rear
Another thing worth mentioning, on Bilstein Sport shocks. The regular Bilstein Sport shocks now come with one snap ring groove for the snap ring that holds the spring seat on the rear shocks. These same rear shocks used to be provided with four snap ring grooves so you could set your own ride heigth.
If you find the right supplier, these shocks can still be ordered with several snap ring grooves. The body of the rear shocks is thick enough that you can machine in new grooves yourself. This is what I did on mine to use the original European 1529.140 kit with the 1517.002 rear springs.
Also, Bob Rossato has posted this note: ---------------------
I went through this last year when I got a set of Bilstein Sports for my Corrado. I called Bilstein here in CT and asked about the sports only having one groove whereas the application guide specifies that they're adjustable for the rears. Apparently this is the way they're coming through now but he stated he could get additional grooves machined on if I wished. I expected there would be a charge but was pleasantly surprised when he offered to do it free of charge since the application guide specifies an adjustable perch.
The service is actually done at the San Diego facility. Since I hadn't installed mine yet I asked him to just order another set from San Diego with the additional grooves machined in and when they came in I drove down and swapped them. Took about 2-3 weeks to come in. The only problem was that he asked them to machine in 4 additional grooves but they ended doing only 2 additional grooves. Oh well, better than nothing.
This is the Bilstein Services web page - listing official shop services, which includes revalving, rebuilding, or machining extra snap ring grooves. They mention that all revalved shocks and struts are dynamometer performance checked.
Please note that this web page has current charges for service. Some prices quoted elsewhere may be out of date. These phone numbers were found on the Bilstein services web page in April 2006:
West: 1-858-386-5900
East: 1-704-663-7563
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Here's Ray Tomlinson's notes on Bilstein valving:
I've spent a little too much time on the phone with Bilstein lately. After speaking with Shayne in tech support/sales, I came across some interesting valving numbers.
For $55 additional charge per strut, Bilstein will completely rebuilt any monotube strut with custom valving.
Here are the stock rebound/compression settings for my struts:
P36-0369 (front): 119 rebound /107 compression
B46-2066 (rear): 125 rebound / 80 compression
Shayne indicated that increasing rebound by 25% in the front, but not as much in the rear, will help control some of the nose-dive we experience in the UrS-cars.
By comparison, the neu-S4 2.7t's valvings are as follows:
front: 273 rebound / 90 compression
rear: 353 rebound / 119 compression
FWIW, I called the number listed for Bilstein's motorsport division in CA as listed on Bilstein's US website - 800.537.1085, and then bounced around until Shayne called me back. If you call the toll-free number, the receptionist will direct you to Shayne's extension.
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Hope this helps ...
- Charlie
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